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Post by Zameel on May 13, 2017 21:42:22 GMT
Mufti Zameelur, it's ironic you quote Abu Shama to make your case against the practice of the mawlid considering he himself was supporter of the mawlid. In future, please read the work you are qouting properly as you have missed an important point in Abu Shama's work. The great imam states: “And among the best innovated actions in these times are those actions that take place every year coinciding with the birth of the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi wasallam) such as charity, good deeds, personal beautification, joy, and so forth, as they speak of love and reverence for the beloved Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi wasallam)…” It is your assumption that I missed it. I was not addressing Abu Shamah's stance on Mawlid. I was pointing out a general Shafi'i attitude towards unprecedented publicised/institutionalised devotional practices that are practised in specified times or with specific features. There is no doubt that Mawlid - singling out the birth-anniversary of the Beloved Prophet in Rabi al-Awwal every year for a devotional celebration - gives the impression that this is an intrinsic part of religion, the very problem the jurists had with other similar innovated practices.
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Post by adam786 on May 13, 2017 22:33:12 GMT
Mufti Zameelur, it's ironic you quote Abu Shama to make your case against the practice of the mawlid considering he himself was supporter of the mawlid. In future, please read the work you are qouting properly as you have missed an important point in Abu Shama's work. The great imam states: “And among the best innovated actions in these times are those actions that take place every year coinciding with the birth of the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi wasallam) such as charity, good deeds, personal beautification, joy, and so forth, as they speak of love and reverence for the beloved Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi wasallam)…” It is your assumption that I missed it. I was not addressing Abu Shamah's stance on Mawlid. I was pointing out a general Shafi'i attitude towards unprecedented publicised/institutionalised devotional practices that are practised in specified times or with specific features. There is no doubt that Mawlid - singling out the birth-anniversary of the Beloved Prophet in Rabi al-Awwal every year for a devotional celebration - gives the impression that this is an intrinsic part of religion, the very problem the jurists had with other similar innovated practices. It's strange leading living shafi'i ulema have not understood the shafi'i attitude like you have. Secondly,in our times the mawlid is not singled out to one day a year or one month a year. It is something practiced throughout the year in many lands. And even if the mawlid was singled out to one day a year, the leading Shafi'i imams who spoke of it did not have an issue with it eg Ibn Hajar al-Haytami, who’s views represent the opinion from which fatwa is given in the Shafi`i school and Suyuti. Abu Shamah whom you have selectively quoted did not have issue with it.
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Post by Zameel on May 14, 2017 8:40:26 GMT
the mawlid is not singled out to one day a year or one month a year. No one is talking of "mawlid" in the sense of certain gatherings that are conducted throughout the year. This is equivocation. "Mawlid" in the sense we are using it here can only take place in Rabi ul Awwal. "Mawlid" means marking the day/month of the year in which the Prophet was born for devotional celebration, just as in the definition you gave from Abu Shamah. That is the "Mawlid" that is being spoken about here. And by definition, this amounts to singling out a day/month for devotional practice.
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Post by SyedMuhammadIbnAlAfaq on May 14, 2017 13:14:01 GMT
Islamic Schools, Khanqahs started after the Prophet. But they are given importance too as if they have some religious importance. Why are these not stopped? Writing tafsirs of Qur'an is also famous in our age. One should have knowledge about the Tafsir of Qur'an. But there was no tafsir book at the time of the messenger, not even at the time of mujtahids. There were no Hadith collections at that time of our Prophet. But now the use of these Hadith collections is prevalent. But they are not stopped, Why? Different Islamic conferences are held on specific days. So if specifying was wrong then why date is fixed for the conferences. Hakim ul-Ummah Ashraf Ali Thanawi divided Takhsees (specification) into two types: A'di and Deeni. He said that A'di takhsees is permissible and Deeni takhsees is impermissible. (Khutbaat e Milad al-Nabi) You have answered your own question. These are non-ritualistic ( 'adi) specifications, not given any religious meaning in and of themselves. People understand madrasas, for instance, are means to an end and are not intrinsically meritorious. Mawlid, the celebration of the birth-anniversary in Rabi al-Awwal, however, is treated as an "Id" by many and is treated as though it has intrinsic religious merit, which amounts to a ritualistic ( ta'abbudi) restriction, as opposed to a non-ritualistic ( 'adi) one. This explains why there are some people, even scholars, who actually believe there is extra merit for carrying out certain good deeds specifically in the month of Rabi al-Awwal, but no one believes the transmission of religious knowledge is intrinsically more meritorious in madrasas. Yes, people might believe it is better for other (practical/organisational) reasons, but not for any intrinsic religious meaning. Al-Shatibi explains: “As for madrasas, there no ritualistic matter connected to it about which it will be said: it is bid‘ah, unless it were supposed that part of the sunnah was that religious knowledge is only studied in masjids, but this is not found – rather, religious knowledge in the early period was distributed in every place, whether masjid, house, travel or residence, or other than that, and even in the markets. Thus, if someone prepares a madrasa for studying religious knowledge, by preparing which he is assisting students, this is no more than him preparing it as a house amongst houses [in which knowledge is distributed]…so where does bid‘ah enter into here? If it is said that bid‘ah is in specifying that place over other places, then the specification here is not a ritualistic ( ta‘abbudi) specification…” ( al-I‘tisam, 1:346) So you are saying that Madrassas are not Bid'ah because "People understand madrasas, for instance, are means to an end and are not intrinsically meritorious." Those who defend Mawlid always say that Mawlid is not an Ibadah and is not intrinsically meritorious, but the acts performed in it are meritorious. Haji Imdadullah (or Hakim al-Ummah Ashraf Ali Thanawi) said in his Faysala Haft Masa'la that Mawlid is never considered an Ibadah but the acts performed in it are considered Ibadah.
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Post by SyedMuhammadIbnAlAfaq on May 14, 2017 13:28:01 GMT
the mawlid is not singled out to one day a year or one month a year. No one is talking of "mawlid" in the sense of certain gatherings that are conducted throughout the year. This is equivocation. "Mawlid" in the sense we are using it here can only take place in Rabi ul Awwal. "Mawlid" means marking the day/month of the year in which the Prophet was born for devotional celebration, just as in the definition you gave from Abu Shamah. That is the "Mawlid" that is being spoken about here. And by definition, this amounts to singling out a day/month for devotional practice. Singling out a day is not always impermissible. Hakim ul-Ummah said that if a person does this specification for an accurate reason, this specification is also permissible. This specification must be non-ritualistic (A'di) and not ritualistic or Deeni. It should not be given religious status. Ulama e Deoband only considered the Mawlid of subcontinent impermissible due to misdeeds attached to it. It is related that Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi once on his journey to Makkah al-Mukarrama for Umra visited his Shaykh and spiritual master, Haji Imdad Allah Muhajir al-Makki (Allah have mercy on him). Incidentally, on one of the days a Mawlid gathering was organized. His Shaykh Haji Imdad Allah (Allah have mercy on him) said to Shaykh Gangohi that there is a Mawlid gathering organized, would you like to attend with me? He refused and said:
“How can I attend a gathering of Mawlid when I prevent others from attending it in India due the evils that have been attached to it. If they (people in India) came to know of me attending a Mawlid what would they say?"
Upon hearing this, his Shaykh Haji Imdad Allah said: “May Allah reward you. I would have not been happier if you attended the Mawlid than I am in you refusing to come with us, because you are steadfast on what you believe to be the truth." Thereafter, Haji Imdad Allah al-Makki attended the Mawlid and one of the servants and students of Shaykh Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi, without informing his Shaykh, also went with him. This student of Shaykh Rashid Ahmad said after attending the Mawlid:
“Had my Shaykh, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi, attended the Mawlid gathering, he would have not condemned it, for it was free from evil and impermissible matters." (See: Malfuzat of Mufti Mahmud al-Hasan Gangohi, 1/99)
Mawlana Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri said: “It is clear from the above that we do not reject the mentioning of the Messenger of Allah’s (Allah bless him him & give him peace) birth; rather, we reject and refute those evils that are attached to such gatherings as you may have seen them in the Indian subcontinent, such as mentioning fabricated and false narrations, intermingling of the sexes, excessive wasteful spending with lights and decorations, holding it to be something necessary to do such that those who choose not to participate are slandered and called non-believers, and other evils from which very few gatherings (in the subcontinent) are free. However, if the gathering is free from such evils, far be it from us that we say, mentioning the birth of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is an evil and innovation…” (al-Muhannad, P: 80)It seems that Ulama e Deoband only considered the Mawlid of subcontinent impermissible due to Evils attached to it mentioned above. Secondly, everyone does not do Mawlid by specifying a date. Egypt's Dar al-Ifta says: "As a matter of fact, Muslims should be in a constant state of joy and happiness with the birth of the noble prophet all year long and should not only confine the celebration of the Prophet’s birth to a certain day"
www.dar-alifta.org/Foreign/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=85&text=mawlid
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Post by Zameel on May 14, 2017 14:39:43 GMT
This illustrates a problem with understanding the reality of what is being addressed. “Mawlid” may be interpreted as “commemorating the Prophetic birth” or as “being happy at the fact the Prophet was born.” No one has any problem with “mawlid” defined in this way. What Mawlana Khaleel Ahmad Saharanpuri addressed in Muhannad was “commemorating the Prophetic birth” (dhikr wilādat al-nabī), which is of course something praiseworthy and meritorious.
However, “Mawlid” does not only mean these things, but historically and in the present, is used to mean the popular “birthday celebration of the Prophet”. Note, this is not merely a “celebration of the fact the Prophet was born” or even a mere “recollection of the historic day on which he was born,” but is to celebrate and mark, in each year, the day/time/month of the year in which he was born. Hence, people who celebrate the Mawlid refer to this time as an ‘Id, and emphasise the day and month in which he was born, and this specific occasion is given special importance in a ritualised manner. This is the “Mawlid” that is being addressed here.
If “Mawlid” was only “commemorating the Prophetic birth” or “being happy at the fact the Prophet was born”, this was of course something done by the early communities; whereas there are clear statements of scholars, even those in support of Mawlid, saying that the Mawlid is an innovation and is unprecedented.* Thus, it is even defined as the specific devotional celebration/gatherings that take place in Rabi ul-Awwal by, for instance, Abu Shamah and al-Fakihani.
* For example:
Ḥāfiẓ Ibn Ḥajar (d. 852 H) said: “The basis of the practice of Mawlid is an innovation (bid‘ah) that has not been transmitted from any of the pious Salaf from the three generations.” (Quoted in al-Ḥāwī li l-Fatāwī, 1:196)
Al-Sakhāwī (d. 902) said: “The practice of Mawlid Sharīf has not been transmitted from any of the pious Salaf from the virtuous three generations, and it only emerged thereafter.” (al-Ajwibat al-Marḍiyyah, p. 1116)
‘Allāmah Ẓaḥir al-Dīn Ja‘far al-Tazmantī (d. 682) said: “This practice did not occur in the early period of the pious Salaf, in spite of their glorification and their love for him – such glorification and love that us put together will not amount to [the love of] even one of them, and not even an atom’s weight of it!” (Subul al-Hudā, 1:442)
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Post by SyedMuhammadIbnAlAfaq on May 14, 2017 16:14:53 GMT
This illustrates a problem with understanding the reality of what is being addressed. “Mawlid” may be interpreted as “commemorating the Prophetic birth” or as “being happy at the fact the Prophet was born.” No one has any problem with “mawlid” defined in this way. What Mawlana Khaleel Ahmad Saharanpuri addressed in Muhannad was “commemorating the Prophetic birth” ( dhikr wilādat al-nabī), which is of course something praiseworthy and meritorious. However, “Mawlid” does not only mean these things, but historically and in the present, is used to mean the popular “ birthday celebration of the Prophet”. Note, this is not merely a “celebration of the fact the Prophet was born” or even a mere “recollection of the historic day on which he was born,” but is to celebrate and mark, in each year, the day/time/month of the year in which he was born. Hence, people who celebrate the Mawlid refer to this time as an ‘Id, and emphasise the day and month in which he was born, and this specific occasion is given special importance in a ritualised manner. This is the “Mawlid” that is being addressed here. If “Mawlid” was only “commemorating the Prophetic birth” or “being happy at the fact the Prophet was born”, this was of course something done by the early communities; whereas there are clear statements of scholars, even those in support of Mawlid, saying that the Mawlid is an innovation and is unprecedented.* Thus, it is even defined as the specific devotional celebration/gatherings that take place in Rabi ul-Awwal by, for instance, Abu Shamah and al-Fakihani. * For example: Ḥāfiẓ Ibn Ḥajar (d. 852 H) said: “The basis of the practice of Mawlid is an innovation (bid‘ah) that has not been transmitted from any of the pious Salaf from the three generations.” (Quoted in al-Ḥāwī li l-Fatāwī, 1:196) Al-Sakhāwī (d. 902) said: “The practice of Mawlid Sharīf has not been transmitted from any of the pious Salaf from the virtuous three generations, and it only emerged thereafter.” ( al-Ajwibat al-Marḍiyyah, p. 1116) ‘Allāmah Ẓaḥir al-Dīn Ja‘far al-Tazmantī (d. 682) said: “ This practice did not occur in the early period of the pious Salaf, in spite of their glorification and their love for him – such glorification and love that us put together will not amount to [the love of] even one of them, and not even an atom’s weight of it!” ( Subul al-Hudā, 1:442) Both Hafiz Ibn Hajar and al-Sakhawi supported Mawlid. Secondly, for an act to be permissible, it is not necessary that is should be performed by the pious Salaf. We are doing many things which were not done by the Salaf. This is not a valid objection.
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Post by SyedMuhammadIbnAlAfaq on May 14, 2017 16:22:30 GMT
However, “Mawlid” does not only mean these things, but historically and in the present, is used to mean the popular “ birthday celebration of the Prophet”. Note, this is not merely a “celebration of the fact the Prophet was born” or even a mere “recollection of the historic day on which he was born,” but is to celebrate and mark, in each year, the day/time/month of the year in which he was born. Hence, people who celebrate the Mawlid refer to this time as an ‘Id, and emphasise the day and month in which he was born, and this specific occasion is given special importance in a ritualised manner. This is the “Mawlid” that is being addressed here. Are you saying that all those who celebrate Mawlid define Mawlid in this way? Secondly, all those who celebrate it does not consider it to be an I'd such as Sayyid Muhammad bin Alawi al-Maliki. He said: “How many times have we stressed that the Messenger of Allah’s day of birth is not considered a Eid, neither do we regard it as a day of Eid, for it is a day greater and more virtuous than the day of Eid. Eid only comes once a year, whilst celebrating the birth of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and mentioning his Sirah should be a constant thing, without restricting it to a particular time or place.”After quoting Sayyid Muhammad bin Alawi al-Maliki, Mufti Muhammad bin Adam al-Kawthari said: "When we study the above quotes of Shaykh Muhammad ibn Alawi al-Maliki (may Allah have mercy on him) taken from his book which he compiled in support of the Mawlid, it becomes clear that there is agreement between what the scholars of Deoband say and those who celebrate Mawlid regarding the evil and unlawful practices. As such, there is no disagreement in reality."
The Mufti later advised: "Indeed, there are some ignorant Muslims who do practice the evils mentioned by the Deobandi Ulama, but rather than refute their celebration of the Mawlid altogether, Deobandis should strive and correct these practices. If they begin to refute the Mawlid altogether, then those who practice it will say that these are Wahhabis, etc, and won’t even reflect upon their unlawful actions. Conversely, if they support the Mawlid, there is a great chance of them correcting the evils. Thus, they should be given an alternative of pure and uncontaminated gathering of Mawlid in which the general Sirah of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is mentioned. A gathering in which people are encouraged to implement the Sunnas and characteristics of the beloved of Allah, whether you call it a Mawlid gathering or a Sirah gathering, for names are irrelevant. This is my sincere advice to the Deobandis."www.daruliftaa.com/node/6074
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Post by adam786 on May 14, 2017 16:32:12 GMT
Unfortunately Mufti Zameelur is unable to accept that there is a difference of opinion regarding singling out the mawlid on the 12th of Rabi' al-Awwal. His response to some of the points raised by Ustadh Salman Younas' in his balanced article is embarrassing at best. At the end of the day there is a valid difference of opinion as the Shafi'i ulema from the time of Abu Shama to Suyuti to the contemporary ulema have no issue with singling out the mawlid to specific date.
At the end of the day one can take what Shafi'is and other madhabs (including the different strains of Hanafi fiqh) say from those ulema or they can stick to what Zameelur says about other madhabs and strains of Hanafi fiqh. I will end my comments here as I'm not interested in verbal gymnastics. People can read the links I posted for themselves.
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Post by sunniseeker on May 14, 2017 16:46:03 GMT
the mawlid is not singled out to one day a year or one month a year. No one is talking of "mawlid" in the sense of certain gatherings that are conducted throughout the year. This is equivocation. "Mawlid" in the sense we are using it here can only take place in Rabi ul Awwal. "Mawlid" means marking the day/month of the year in which the Prophet was born for devotional celebration, just as in the definition you gave from Abu Shamah. That is the "Mawlid" that is being spoken about here. And by definition, this amounts to singling out a day/month for devotional practice. salaam 'alaykum Does anyone claim that the mawlid can only take place in Rabi ul Awwal with the exception to any other time of the year? Also what Abu Shama is describing is completely different from what you are inferring from it. He is talking about establishing specific form of ibadah that has no basis....mawlid is a gathering of remembrance. It really isn't the same thing.
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